"johnmpc94" (johnmpc94)
06/26/2015 at 17:04 • Filed to: None
1
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"johnmpc94" (johnmpc94)
06/26/2015 at 17:04 • Filed to: None | 1
| 27 |
Well, thanks to Party-vi I now have authorship here on Oppo. For my inaugural post I felt like discussing the thing I’ve been dealing with for the past couple of weeks - car shopping.
My mom’s family is paying for his first, but with a list of requirements:
- $8000 or less
- FWD or AWD (for winter... no budging on this point from them)
- 4-door
- Relatively reliable (Sorry to all the cheap 9-superscript-3s out there)
- Relatively economical (but no specific numbers mentioned...)
- Preferably around 100k miles, but flexible to around 130k
- My brother’s single request was that he get a manual. Thankfully the powers that be saw no issue with that.
So, armed with this list I attacked Autotrader as well as all the different Craigslist sites within ~200 miles of home base. And that’s where I found an issue. My mom’s family is from the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago, which is apparently home to any car you could ever want. Seriously, I think the last R63 AMG that went up on Autotrader was about 15 minutes from my Grandfather’s. There were 84 listings for vehicles matching our needs within 10 miles of his house. After much reasoning and culling of falsely-labeled transmissions, we ended with 30 vehicles to choose from within 10 miles of his house. I attempt the same search here at home (Central Arkansas). I end up with ~120 results within 200 miles. After the same reasoning and culling, we ended up with 6 vehicles. The closest was half an hour away, the remainder were 2.5-3.5 hours travel time from home. 30 cars within 10 miles vs. 6 cars within 200 miles.
This made me start to question why this happened. The obvious reasoning that Chicago is more populated so undoubtedly you’ll net more cars does stand, but it made me question what the percentage of manuals per __# of people was. To me it stands to reason that if one lived in a heavily urban area, there would be less demand for manuals due to traffic issues. At least, that’s the argument my mom’s family posed against any of them purchasing something with a clutch. Yet most (honestly with the requirements, almost all) of the vehicles I encountered were commuters. But as I live in Arkansas, land of little traffic (apart from that caused by the elderly on single-lane rural highways), I would assume the percentage of manual-equipped-commuters to be slightly higher, yet most of the vehicles my query returned were “sporting”. Mazdaspeeds, a couple of Sentra SE-Rs, and a (barely sporting) Focus ZX4 ST.
So the question I pose to those of you bored enough to read such a pedantic post as this, what are your thoughts on this or what experience have you had when manual car shopping?
Patrick Nichols
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:07 |
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Saab 9-2x or impreza
djmt1
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:09 |
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B5 S4
I have no idea what these goes for where $ is the currency but they can picked up for less than £4,000 where I am.
TheRealBicycleBuck
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:14 |
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Que?
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johnmpc94
> djmt1
06/26/2015 at 17:20 |
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I actually didn’t see a single one within 200 miles from me. As in not a single Audi with a manual transmission within budget/mileage. It’d definitely be fun, but I don’t think they’ll go for it. And honestly, I soooooooooo don’t want to work on that engine. It kinda scares me, and I had a Volvo 850 Turbo...
mcseanerson
> Patrick Nichols
06/26/2015 at 17:20 |
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Saab 9-2x is actually doing really good holding it’s value too which could be a good thing. Just get those airbags replaced.
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johnmpc94
> Patrick Nichols
06/26/2015 at 17:23 |
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Actually found a (singular) Saabaru within budget, but it was kinda rough. Also ran across an Impreza hatch of the same vintage, but the ‘firm’ price was about $1500 more than it was worth...
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mcseanerson
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:24 |
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http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/509283…
Boom. Problem solved. I would talk him down a grand or more probably. Also I owned an ‘04 3 2.0 with a stick after owning an ‘05 Sentra SE-R Spec V and can tell you the base 3 is a better driver than the top Sentra.
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Patrick Nichols
> mcseanerson
06/26/2015 at 17:27 |
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Yeah I mean it’s basically a WRX with a nicer interior and I think people finally caught on because in the last couple years, I’ve seen used ones go for the same amount over time but with more miles. I would DD the shit out of one over its subie twin. In new england it is impossible to find a not rusted out wrx with decent miles for under 10k but the saabs tend to be in the 6-8k range
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johnmpc94
> mcseanerson
06/26/2015 at 17:27 |
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I thank thee for the suggestion, but I’m Arkansas-based. The people paying for the car are Chicago-based, but the logistics didn’t work out to buy the car up there. However, we’re going to Tulsa tomorrow to look at these:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…
AM3R shamefully returns
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:27 |
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An E46 325xi/330xi could be had in budget under 100k. Manuél is pretty easy to find amongst them too.
RX
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:28 |
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Get proper tires and rwd will be fine. I say RX-8, I drove one for 10 winters in Chicago with proper tires and had no problem. And you can get one within budget.
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Patrick Nichols
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:29 |
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that tends to happen but its one of those cars that a nice example will be worth the money and you can occasionally find a deal if you’re patient and quick when it comes up
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johnmpc94
> AM3R shamefully returns
06/26/2015 at 17:30 |
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Well, that’s the problem I’ve been having. Living in Arkansas, the only people that buy the E46s with a manual buy the RWD variant. I’ve run across a couple of nice 325is but my family refuses to acknowledge that RWD is okay in the rare snow (ice, really) that we get.
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mcseanerson
> Patrick Nichols
06/26/2015 at 17:32 |
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Here in Ohio the Saabs tend to get more cash and tend to appear more often to be adult owned.
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mcseanerson
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:33 |
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I did not notice that part.
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johnmpc94
> RX
06/26/2015 at 17:33 |
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My family is (literally) made up of engineers and accountants, and refuse to acknowledge my arguments that RWD can be okay for winter driving, as long as the proper preparations/precautions are made. They don’t like risk. My aunt drove the wheels off a ‘99 Saturn SL2 manual and now has an ‘09 Camry LE. These people can’t be reasoned with.
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johnmpc94
> mcseanerson
06/26/2015 at 17:34 |
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Yeah, my writings are heavily pedantic and details can get lost. But what was your opinion of the Mazda3? He’s interested in the ‘08 (we have yet to drive it) but I’m kinda indifferent on them currently.
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mcseanerson
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:35 |
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The 3 looks nice. Never really cared for the previous gen 6.
punkgoose17
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:39 |
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How unreliable are the cheap 9-superscript-3s? I am in the market for a cheap replacement car. (The problem is I like Saabs, but cannot afford a 2010-2011 9-5.)
Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:44 |
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As a resident of the northern suburbs of Chicago, I’ve got a few ideas on this.
First off, I understand the idea of thinking that FWD or AWD is going to be best in winter. Of course, as we all know, this is a common misconception the general public has. I move here from Arizona not even two years ago, have been through two of the worst winters this part of the country has ever seen, and got through both in two different RWD vehicles (an ‘05 4Runner on a nice set of all-seasons and an FR-S with a set of Blizzak WS80s). Both handled the winter amazingly with the FR-S actually being the better of the two, presumably because of the tires. I actually went driving for fun during the Super Bowl Sunday blizzard with some friends from my car club, and ended up passing a bunch of stuck SUVs, crossovers, and AWD cars. But if they’re stuck on FWD or AWD, that’s fine. They’re paying for it after all. haha
As for the high percentage of manuals, I attribute that to the Chicagoland area housing a larger than average population of petrolheads. We are centrally located in one of he best parts of the country for motorsports, with lots of tracks and any kind of racing you could hope to enjoy accessible. There are also a fair amount of major automotive companies with large offices (or even headquarters) all over the place. I actually moved here for a marketing job in the auto industry.
As for some vehicle options, here are a couple I came across in a quick CL search:
‘07 MS3
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/507316…
B5 S4
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/503314…
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johnmpc94
> punkgoose17
06/26/2015 at 17:45 |
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I can’t vouch personally, but the only things I hear about them are horror stories about random electrical/engine/transmission issues, and the price around here reflects that. Most are listed for about $1k below KBB and still sell really slowly. I assume that the reliability is due to the Swedish over-complication of things - my 850 Turbo wasn’t necessarily a bad car, it’s just that when it failed it did so spectacularly. Oil line that runs to the radiator pops off? It uses a special clamp that is about an inch big and costs upwards of $40. Each. And no, hose clamps won’t withstand the pressure (learned that the hard way). Had a seal for the incoming air fail for the climate control - literally had the blower motor turn to shrapnel in it’s housing when it hit the water that had gotten in.
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mcseanerson
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:46 |
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I absolutely loved it.
Mine was an ‘04 with the base 2.0 motor which a lot of reviews were negative on but I loved as it returned good mileage and was plenty eager to perform. I didn’t have ABS on mine and I actually preferred it that way.
Some people don’t want cars without ABS, especially in the winter, but I find that you shouldn’t be driving in a way that triggers ABS unless you want to and if you want to drive like that then you probably don’t want ABS, like trailbraking into a tight corner.
I got 48mpg, won my class in my first autocross in it, survived t-boning a civic to the point of driving home 100 miles away with no problem, put it in a ditch in a bad winter storm, and it never needed anything except for minor bodywork from the accident with the civic and a rear brake pad job and some oil changes.
If you just want a good car without wanting the absolute sportiest car in the world I can’t recommend anything better. Unless you have no soul, then get a camry.
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AM3R shamefully returns
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:46 |
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Ah, I live right outside DC. We get snow and ice a lot in winter and I’m 100% fine in my RWD BMW. Are you willing to travel for the car? Xi BMW’s are super common farther up north.
jjhats
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 17:50 |
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I would buy a mazda 3 hatch or maybe impreza but mazda 3 are great cars
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RX
> johnmpc94
06/26/2015 at 18:02 |
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Seems to be the majority everywhere. People though I was crazy driving rear wheel in the snow. I actually prefer it to driving my wife’s Tahoe on all season tires in the snow. Handling and braking are far superior in the RX-8. The only thing all wheel drive is good for is getting you to an unsafe speed more quickly.
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johnmpc94
> mcseanerson
06/28/2015 at 01:11 |
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So, finally made it home after a long day of car shopping. Me and my brother both drove the ‘08 6i and ‘08 3i. I can honestly say that I was astounded with how lovely the clutch and gear lever/transmission feel in the 3. You just get in and everything feels... right. You can take it slowly and it doesn’t mind, or you can rev the beejaysus out of it between shifts and it couldn’t be happier. However, the one we drove had a weird noise emanating from the back left, and I couldn’t diagnose it from the dealer’s lot. Honestly, I shouldn’t have had to for the price he was wanting. And it’s all downhill from there. Gear lever trim indicating shift pattern? Missing. Fake-chrome-plating on steering wheel and parking brake release button? Completely worn off. Fog light cracked, mismatched tires, right rear tire leaking, and a number of random almost-holes (kinda like holes in the body that someone half-assedly patched with bondo) on the doors. And he wanted $700 more than we paid for the 6. Same year, 8k less miles, $700 more in much poorer condition.
As far as the 6 goes, I plan on posting a review and pictures at some point. For now though, suffice it to say that it’s not nearly as soulless as I had worried it would be. It has just enough fun in it to make it a good car. Gripes thusly are: It could really use a taller 5th or an added 6th gear. 75mph = 3500rpm = 33-ish mpg. Also, as cool as the switchblade keys are, it seems that almost all of them become very wobbly over time, this one included.
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mcseanerson
> johnmpc94
06/28/2015 at 02:30 |
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I’ve never seen anyone have something nice to say about a Mazda clutch before....